500 years from now, when 26th century archeologists will be slicing through the stratum of the broken remains of Frankfurt or Philadelphia, chips of silicon chips next to bits of Snickers and Big Mac wrappers under mounds of DVD shards, squashed satellite dishes among twisted nipple rings and faded Obama campaign buttons, bases of shattered toilet bowls still bolted to face away from Mecca next to popped air bubble soles still claiming victory for Nike, they will be wandering, what was is that destroyed this civilization?
There will be theories ranging from lead contamination in our water supply to ubiquitous estrogen-mimicking chlorine by-products and other demasculinising chemicals decimating men’s sperm count and virility itself. But looking at it now, in 2008, it looks like a viral disease of the brain, affecting only white people. And for our civilization and the people who carry it to survive, it’s necessary that the healthy part of the population, those not yet turned into Body Snatcher doppelgängers, try to isolate themselves from the sick and their institutions.
You think this is hyperbole, but it’s an understatement.
Need I remind anyone that Brussels Journal is the anti-Jihad site from which the idea of aligning ourselves with the Vlaams Belang originally came.
Paul Belien the founder and editor of Brussels Journal is married to a high party official of the Vlaams Belang. And now we see, very clearly, that he is willing to publish articles calling for white separatism.
On JewsAre Jews a European race? There might be sincere and well-informed views that differ on this. No matter the answer, what sense does it make to exclude from the “we” a people that has lived in Europe for 2400 years, in great numbers so since having been brought to Rome as slaves after the Great Revolt’s defeat in 70 CE, and with a considerable mingling of the DNAs over the centuries? Not to mention the origin of the creed that’s inseparable from the “European Race,” Christianity.
The reason the great majority of Jews would not be in the Antipod community is not their race but their politics. There is a heavy statistical distribution of Jews on the political left, all the way to its extremes.
The Jewish tendency to want to repair the world runs counter to three principles I believe in, two of which all conservatives ought to believe in. First, the “repair” causes unintended damages worse than the flaw the repairers were trying to fix. Second, a conservative ought to be so busy with conserving what’s worth conserving that he can engage merely in tinkering with society’s edges but not in the wholesale remodeling that the majority of Jews seems to be fond of, from socialism to multiculturalism to Obama.
On Non-Whites
The issue of the nonwhite inhabitants of the West is more complicated. In Body Snatcher’s Meccania, the Antipods have only one choice: separation. The news today informs, from Melbourne:
“DISCRIMINATION against dominant white males will soon be encouraged in a bid to boost the status of women, the disabled and cultural and religious minorities.”
In this world-gone-mad, whites must play racial politics, or else they will end up in the cellar of the house they and their ancestors have built. As long as Antipods have to live as a reviled minority in Body Snatcher society, the “we” has to remain a whites-only club, no different in principle from a black college fraternity or an Indian reservation. But this does not imply troglodyte attitudes and wholesale animosity toward other races and nationalities.
Should the West ever again regain its senses, if a whole country could be run on Antipod principles, there is no just basis for denying a nonwhite minority full participation -- if they and generations of their ancestors were born there, if they are fully assimilated, if they have abandoned tribalism for citizenism, if they cannot become a majority, and if they be judged by the same criteria as whites without multiculti obfuscation, cowardly manipulation of negative data, or racist discrimination for or against them.
It would be a cop out to fail to mention that such a principle of race-blind equitability cannot possibly lead to a multi-racial coexistence on the present scale. There are enormous social problems with blacks as a group, with violent crime rates at least 7 times those of whites, and other antisocial traits such as serial fatherhood, illegitimacy, pimp culture and disdain for work similarly overrepresented.
Amazing. That's some fancy-pantsed nuancin', if you ask me.
By the way, after reading this, does anyone still doubt my argument that the Vlaams Belang only supports Israel because they see it as another Ethnic Nationalist state, like the one they want to create?
And, don't you think it's likely that, if the Vlaams Belang were able to take power, they'd "encourage" European Jews to move to Israel?
48 comments:
Pastorius,
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By the way, after reading this, does anyone still doubt my argument that the Vlaams Belang only supports Israel because they see it as another Ethnic Nationalist state, like the one they want to create?
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I never doubted you on this, and know I have even less reason to, now that you have written such a well thought out commentary.
Pastorius,
you said,
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Brussels Journal is suffering from a disease affecting only racists. Watch in amazement as they call for white separatism.
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Your correct, racism is stupid. What difference does one's skin tone make as far as moral worth?
Actually Pastorius, I don't think that the VB would "encourage" Flemish Jews to move to Israel at all. In fact Filip Dewinter has explicitly stated that Judaism is as central to European civilization as Christianity is. Israeli MK Arieh Eldad, who is hosting the Facing Jihad summit in Jerusalem tomorrow, was quoted in Haaretz yesterday as saying the VB are so pro-Jewish that they should be chairing said summit.
As for them being ethnic nationalists, I'm sure that prominent non-white VB officials like Pieter Van Boxel, Aisha Van Zele and Belkiz Sogutlu would strongly disagree with your assertion. The VB are not the whites-only BNP after all. They are linguistic nationalists and separatists, much like the PQ, BQ and ADQ political parties are in Quebec.
Did you read the first three parts of "From Meccania to Atlantis"? It's true that the author, whose pen name means "pickled radish" in Japanese, rips political correctness to shreds, then burns the shreds and stomps on the ashes, but I've thoroughly enjoyed the series so far and hope it continues. I guess that's my inner fascist speaking LOL. But I agree with the main thrust of the author's argument: That liberalism, including the liberalism of Bush, McCain et al, combined with mass Third World immigration, particularly Muslim immigration, are destroying our 2500 year-old Western Civilization.
Do you consider it racist to want to preserve the white majorities of the US, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, etc? No other nation outside the West would ever consider willingly becoming minorities in their own homelands, nor would any Western nation as recently as 40 or 50 years ago. I don't consider ethnic suicide to be particularly virtuous, and I don't think that wanting to preserve white majorities in nations their white ancestors built to be racist.
Successful First World nations don't need ANY immigration. Consider South Korea (99.9% Korean), Japan (98.5% Japanese), or Taiwan (98% Chinese). In 50 or 100 years those nations will still be Korean, Japanese and Chinese respectively. What will we be in North America in 50 or 100 years, besides a northern extension of Latin America? A largely non-white, Spanish-speaking region with all the poverty, corruption, violence, inequality and societal incompetence that we see south of the border today. And the future of Europe looks far, far worse as the Euro-elites allow it to morph into a Muslim-dominated Eurabia. Is it really so wrong to protest against this grim future that liberalism and mass immigration are bequeathing to us? I say no.
Sorry for the long rant, but I'd just like to conclude by saying:
Hurrah for Takuan Seiyo!
Hurrah for the Brussels Journal!
Hi Jeppo,
Thank you for being polite.
You asked: Do you consider it racist to want to preserve the white majorities of the US, Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, etc?
I reply: That is, simply, the end of Ethnic Nationalism. As I have been saying, Ethnic Nationalism is a rather peaceful sounding idea on it's own. But when you spool it out to its conclusion- for it is as inevitable as a piece of fishing wire - it ends up in enforced separatism, which will inevitably require fascist legislation and physical coercion to carry out.
That's what I've been saying the whole time.
Is it racist? Not strictly, according to the world's standards. As you point out, the world doesn't seem to have much trouble, in general, with the idea of Chinese Nationalism, Japanese Nationalism, African Nationalism, or Native American Nationalism, or any of the others.
I do, though. Let me be clear about that. I think ALL varieties of Ethnic Nationalism are offensive to the core. They disgust me. I hate racialism. I hate Ethnic Nationalism. I think they are "ideas" born of tribal instinct. They are base and animalistic. I think we are called to a higher morality by the Judeo-Christian God.
That's my opinion.
I recognize that, when the chips are down, I am in the minority on this argument.
Damien,
Thanks. I must admit, this article is shocking to me, because it is so blatant. I guess these guys are like the Jihadis. They are proud of their beliefs, and eventually they will tell us everything they think. They believe they have the wind behind them, and in a sense, they do.
That's Europe for you.
One line tells the tale of this whole stupid effort....
"In this world-gone-mad, whites must play racial politics, or else they will end up in the cellar of the house they and their ancestors have built."
1)What your ancestors did means shit
2)What you are doing is racial if not totally racist
3)That self classes you with the excrement of society and history whether or not you find some of your compadrres objectionable on some level.
This is not an argument for survival of the best society and or culture.
This is an argument for racial division based on 'cultural' heritage.
Imagine if they did this in North Dakota. We'd have a sea of white faces, just as Belien wishes.
He cannot go on to face the music of cultural change.
Anti jihadism is a SUBSET of the real desire of these people.
As his CLEAR attitude about the STILL FOREIGN BODY of jews in europe makes clear
"The Jewish tendency to want to repair the world runs counter to three principles I believe in, two of which all conservatives ought to believe in. "
That's not a tendency, that's a central commitment, and a directive from command central if you get my drift.
WHat a joke
Jeppo,
Let me be clear about a distinction I am making. You asked me whether the ideas were racist. I replied they are not strictly racist. Instead, I say they are racialist.
In my opinion, it is possible to prefer one's own race, and yet not have ill will towards other races. I see this in people all the time.
However, it is racist to say that black people are inherently given to criminality, and that is one of the ideas that Seiyo hints at, ever so unsubtly, in this article.
So, to be clear, that is racism. The rest of it, as an argument for racial separatism is, as you note, simply the way of the world.
Europe, having already invited countless millions of non-Europeans in to live as citizens, does not have the luxury of choice in this matter, without taking outright fascist action.
We also need to be clear about that.
One of the things that has bothered me in this whole argument is that the people who support these Ethnic Nationalists seem to want to not have their left hand understand what their right hand is doing.
They advocate for an outright Ethnic Nationalist party like the Vlaams Bleang, and act as of that will not inevitably entail fascist action.
The Jewish commitment to "heal the world" does not mean that one must be a big government Liberal. The writer of the article knows that. And, therefore, I have to wonder if his criticism of that central tenet of Judaism is more a way of restating his problem with Jews in a political context, rather than a germ context. Still, as you point out, Epa, it is the same thing. Foreign body that needs to be expelled.
Pastorius,
I'm not sure he realizes that "The Jewish commitment to "heal the world" does not mean that one must be a big government Liberal. The Nazis blamed the Jews for the Russian Revolution and the rise of communism in Russia, so it is plausible that a modern antisemitic bigot could easily believe something akin to this.
Hi Pastorius,
Thanks for your replies. I'm afraid that once again we're going to have to agree to disagree about the VB. What I really like about them is their opposition to further Muslim immigration into their country. And outside of Tom Tancredo, who's unfortunately retiring from the House, there is no prominent politician on this side of the pond who is willing to stand up against the Islamic immigration invasion and conquest of the West. Shame on us.
Are you familiar with the Separationist School of Western-Islamic relations?
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/006854.html
Basically it says that all Muslim immigration to the West should be ended completely and permanently. Non-citizen Muslims and jihad-supporting immigrants should be deported forthwith, and as many other Muslims as possible should be paid off to leave voluntarily. We should have as little to do with the Muslim world as possible, and stop the expansion of the Ummah wherever it threatens non-Muslim nations (Israel, Philippines, Thailand, India, etc.). The goal is to have a stable or shrinking, rather than exploding (pun intended) Muslim population in the West, and to eventually end our reliance on the Muslim world for the only things they have that we need, i.e. oil and gas.
What do you think of this idea? To me it makes a lot more sense than what we're doing now: Importing Muslims by the tens of millions and acquiescing to creeping Sharia here at home, while simultaneously occupying Muslim nations abroad in a futile attempt to impose democracy and liberalism on them, as if that will end their 1400 year-long jihad against us infidels. I can't think of a worse strategy than the one our leaders, left or "right", are pursuing now, can you?
do you want a european europe?
then that means it has to be EUROPEAN, not african or asian.
people from these regions MUST assimilate or europe loses its identity.
that's just an incontrovertible fact.
in con tro vert ib le.
if the left maintains control of the eu then muslticutluralism remains the organizing principle of the day and europe ceases to be european in about 30 years.
it will be un-european and dominated by muslims.
that's just a demographic fact.
de mo gra phic fact. period.
most non-immigrant Brits having kids are second generation muslims
if you want britain to remain british then yo must support policies which promote british natives - YES NATIVES --
na tives -
having kids, and which stop immigrants who are not british from coming into britain.
that;s just a fact.
ditto the other nations of europe.
now all the nation states of europe were once made upo of distinct groups.
france was made up of francks and gauls and burgundians and provencals etc. with different languages and dialects.
ditto spain and italy and germany. and even britain.
these nations states were mostly forged in the 19th century; (though briain earlier).
catalans want out of sapin; northern italians want out of italy; basques want out of spain, ands so on: there's a lot of pressure for devolution on one level as europe unifes under a SOCIALIST and NON-DEMOCRATIC EU government.
the catalans and the jews and the irish and the ukrainians and the tibetans all want the same thing: local control of the domain of their heritage.
the muslims are INVADERS.
they muist be repulsed or europe will cease to be europe and the oold little nation states fall under the control of an EU dominated by leftits and muslims.
REMEMBER: as soon as muslims make up a PLURALITY in fance and italy and britain, they can take over - as the national governments in europe are parliamentarian and proportional representaionally speaking.
then they can enact SHARIA as the law of the land - as well as SOCIALISM.
they will become like IRAN, and ruthlessly curtail all liberty just as the ayatollahmaniacs have in Iran.
i think "you anti-anti-jihad" folks AND Belien are both emphasizing RACE TOO MUCH.
this is a culture war.
and the fact is that ONLY right wing europeans and devout euro-Christians have pride in their european IDENTITY.
the postmodern left feel that Western Civilization has been the most evil thing in all of human history and is responsible for "GLOBAL WARMENING!" and Third World Poverty/3rd Wolrd AIDS and most genocide historically.
all of the propositions are demonstrable FALSE, but because they believe them they actually want western civilization and hence europe to disappear.
and this is close to happening - in historical terms.
just as constantinople was once the seat of the WEST but became muslim via invasion, so to will london and paris and so on.
NOW I KNOW ALL OF YOU IBLOGA FANS KNOW THIS.
so i ask you:::::::
how would you repel this immigration/invasion?
i guess you could keep all muslims out and require all citizens to swear an oath on the national constitution.
the left would cry "FOUL!".
the muslims are colonizing. niot assimilationg.
time is running out.
with the national governments doing nothing effective and the eu-govt aiding and abetting infiltration and appeasement of islamofascists worldwide, time is running out - AND OF COURSE EUROPEANS WHO WANT EUROPE TO REMAIN EUROPEAN ARE GOING TO GET DESPERATE.
sadly; their nations and the eu will sooner tuirn on them then the real enemy.
just like you guys are by condemning the european anti-jihadists.
THIS IS WAR, FOLKS!
FDR was right to ally the USA with USSR tom defeat Hitler.
Kasparov was right to ally himself with the RUSSIAN COMMUNIST PARTY in demonstrations against Putin.
in times of war - when survival is at stake - you make some unsavroy allies.
we should be admonishing belien when he wrongly emphasizes race of culture, but we must never forget who our allies re.
divided we fall.
you anti-belien folks think by having an alliance with belien we are tainted.
not so.
we are only lambasted by the left - and they're on the other side anyway!!!!!!!
i say stay engaged with the belienists and try to keep them from getting too racialist, but don't throw them away.
we are better if we engage with them and convert them to our strategy and tactics.
we have no chance at reforming them if we toss them aside.
ALL THE BEST!
LUVYA ALL!
and remember who the real enemies are: the islamofascists and the left!
i agree with livni for once:
Livni: Israeli Arabs should move to Palestine once state created
By Haaretz Service and News Agencies
Last Update: 11/12/2008 19:08
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Thursday that the creation of a Palestinian state would serve as a solution to national aspirations of Israel's Arab citizens.
"Once a Palestinian state is established, I can come to the Palestinian citizens, whom we call Israeli Arabs, and say to them 'you are citizens with equal rights, but the national solution for you is elsewhere,'" Livni was quoted by Army Radio as saying to students at a Tel Aviv high school.
"The idea is to maintain two states for two peoples, that is my path to a democratic nation," she added.
Jeppo,
You said: Are you familiar with the Separationist School of Western-Islamic relations?
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/006854.html
Basically it says that all Muslim immigration to the West should be ended completely and permanently. Non-citizen Muslims and jihad-supporting immigrants should be deported forthwith, and as many other Muslims as possible should be paid off to leave voluntarily. We should have as little to do with the Muslim world as possible, and stop the expansion of the Ummah wherever it threatens non-Muslim nations (Israel, Philippines, Thailand, India, etc.). The goal is to have a stable or shrinking, rather than exploding (pun intended) Muslim population in the West, and to eventually end our reliance on the Muslim world for the only things they have that we need, i.e. oil and gas.
What do you think of this idea?
I say: That sounds like a good idea to me, but that doesn't have anything to do with race, does it?
Reliapundit,
You said: i think "you anti-anti-jihad" folks AND Belien are both emphasizing RACE TOO MUCH.
I said: That's incorrect. I am anti-Jihad. However, I don't agree with the Brussels Journal/Atlas Shrugs/GOV on this issue.
And, as for you saying I emphasize race too much. That's stupid. I'm not the one who brought race into the discussion.
I'm inclined to say you owe me an apology.
Damien,
Well said.
Thing is, I know that, because of the way Seiyo phrased portions of his argument, he would say that you are simply restating what he said. But, that begs the question of why he had to bring race into the issue by saying that white people need to separate themselves from others. And, why did he need to make these statements about Jews and non-whites?
The reason, in my opinion, is because the reality is those statements are central to his argument. They are important to him.
Seiyo neglects to acknowledge that we can not have a perfect world.
However, we don't have to have a perfect world to have a self-sustaining civilization. Sharia is sedition in every Western country (as according to it's stated ideology it seeks to overthrow all government and establish itself in their place). Therefore, we simply need to lock up everyone who advocates sedition for life, or kick them out of the countries in which they perform these seditious activities.
That's the solution, and that has nothing to do with race.
Pastorius,
No it doesn't have anything to do with race, but that wouldn't stop Muslims from screaming "RACISM!" at the top of their lungs if Muslim immigration were ever stopped. But who cares what they think or say? Immigration isn't a right, it's a privilege, a privilege that Muslims have abused for long enough already. Racism shmasism, they should be emigrating from, not immigrating to, the West.
We need political leaders who agree with us on this crucial issue, and that's the number one reason why I support the VB. That we don't have such leaders over here who support an end to Muslim immigration is a national disgrace. Maybe our politicians should read Robert Spencer's new book "Stealth Jihad", where he calls for Muslim immigration to be stopped, period. At least there seems to be a consensus building about this in the counterjihadosphere, excluding LGF of course.
Jeppo,
So, you agree with me that Islam is not a race and, it seems, even more importantly, that our problem is with Islam, not with other forms of immigration.
So, why do you support this article by Seiyo?
My point in this post is that Belien approves this stuff. His site is a nominal mouthpiece of the Vlaams Belang.
I believe one can assume that, if Belien thinks this piece by Seiyo is ok, then his wife probably does as well. And, if his wife does, then we know how at least some of the higher up members of the Vlaams Belang feel.
As if we didn't, already, have enough evidence.
Pastorius, Islam is not a race, but that's never stopped Muslims from crying racism when they don't get their way. They do it because it appeals to white liberal guilt, and unfortunately it works for them as they extract concession after concession from our milquetoast leaders. And you should never discount the anti-white animus of the jihadists: In Mumbai they specifically targeted whites for death, the Bali bombers code-named their human targets "white meat", Ayman al-Zawahiri has called for non-whites to rise up against whites in America, etc. This is as much of a one-sided race war as it is a conventional jihad.
I'm against all immigration myself, white, black, brown, green, whatever. Study after study show recent immigration, mostly from the Third World, is an economic drain on the host nation, at least in Canada. And I'm sure the US and Europe are no better. Modern immigration is little more than a voter-importation scam perpetrated by leftist political parties. Why so-called conservatives support it is beyond me. Who knows, maybe they can't count (McCain beat Obama among whites 55-43) or maybe they just like losing elections? Either way, they better get used to losing.
Here's a theoretical question for you Pastorius: If, in order to stop Muslim immigration and in the name of the highest liberal values of fairness and non-discrimination, we had to stop ALL immigration, would you agree to that? Or would the price of cutting off Muslim immigration, namely cutting off all immigration, be too high? This is a question we might eventually have to answer if we are serious about stopping the influx of Muslims into our countries.
Obviously Belien approved the column by "Pickled Radish". But to go from there to concluding that the head honchos of the VB endorse everything in it is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? The column is written in a forceful in-your-face style that I wouldn't have chosen, even though I basically agree with it. But this is the fourth part of an extended essay probably containing 20,000 words, so no I don't agree with everything in it. But it's refreshing to read an over-the-top politically incorrect rant such as this IMHO. Bring on part #5!
Back later
A la prochaine
If I were in charge, and thankfully I am not, I would interview immigrants the way one interviews new-hires for a business. I would find out their qualifications, make an assessment of their personality, of their go-getter qualities, and check into references and background information.
There are times when we do not need any immigrants. I would say that with the economy the way it is now, we don't need any immigrants now.
Additionally, being that I live in California, I am inclined to think that our immigration policy, or lack thereof, is completely insane. We don't need as many Mexican and South American immigrants as we have.
One of the problems with Mexican immigrants is that, because it is so relatively easy to get here, we do not tend to get the best of the best, as we do with immigration from other parts of the world like India, Viet Nam, Korea, etc. Instead, we just get anyone who hops the border.
My in-laws are Filipino. It was not an easy thing for them to come here. And, because it took a major effort on their part to become citizens of America, they cherish their citizenship. They love America. And, they contribute, because they appreciate the opportunities our country affords them.
They are, in short, model immigrants.
Filipinos, in general (from my experience) are like Instant Americans. Their enthusiasm is very much like that of the average American. They assimilate very quickly, and are happy to do so.
Many Mexican people come here with the intention of working here for a few years, sending money home, and then getting the hell out.
That is not citizenship.
PASTO;
YOU ARE TOO SENSITIVE ABOUT RACISM.
AS A JEW I HAVE LIVED WITH IT MY WHOLE LIFE - NOT AS MUCH THROUGH MY OWN DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF ANTISEMITISM BUT BECAUSE OF HOW JEWS HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY VICTIMIZED BY IT.
I DON;T EXPECT EVERYONE I AGREE WITH ON ONE KEY ISSUE TO AGREE WITH MY ON ALL ISSUES AND WHEN THEY DON;T I WON;T OSTRACIZE THEM.
HECK: I VOTED FOR MCCAIN!
PRO-CHOICE PEOPLE HAVE ADVOCATED THE MURDER OF MORE HUMANS IN THE USA AND EUROPE THAN WERE KILLED BY HITLER.
30 MILLION SINCE ROE V WADE IN THE USA ALONE.
BUT I ACCEPT PRO-CHOICERS WHO ARE HAWKS IN WW4 BECAUSE WW4 TRUMPS ABORTION FOR THE TIME BEING.
AND I EXPECT THAT - AS WE FIGHT OUR COMMON ENEMY - I CAN EDUCATE THE PRO-CHOICER.
SO CAN IT BE WITH BELIEN.
BESIDES: THE MORE PRESSURE HIS PEOPLE CREATE, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS FOR POLITICIANS WHO WOULD IGNORE THE SITUATION TO TAKE SOME POSITIVE ACTIONS TO END THE ISLAMIFICATION OF EUROPE.
YES: KEEP THE HEAT ON BELIEN AND VB FOR THE ASPECTS OF THEIR PROGRAM YOU DISLIKE, BUT DO NOT SHUN THEM.
THAT ONLY AIDS THE LEFT AND THE ISLAMOFASCIST ENEMY.
DAMIEN WROTE:
If you are a black man and your parents were British citizens and you were born in Briton, and you are a British citizen, and you are patriotic, doesn't that make you British?
THIS SORT OF BEGS THE QUESTION.
THE "AND IF YOU ARE PATRIOTIC" PART.
NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A LOYALTY TEST/OATH.
THIS IS REPUGNANT TO MAY LIBS.
CAN NON-EUROPEANS WHO ARE MUSLIM BE TRUSTED WITH THIS OATH?
ISN'T THE KORAN A TOTALITARIAN DOCUMENT WHICH DEMANDS SHARIA?
AREN'T MUSLIMS WHO ACCEPT WESTERN CONSTITUTIONS APOSTATES?
IF FILIPINO CAN MEAN SOMETHING NATIONAL AND RACIAL - AS DOES CATALAN AND ITALIAN AND AND TIBETAN, THEN WHY CAN'T EUROPEANS DESIRE THAT THEY REMAIN EUROPEAN WITHOUT BEING XENOPHOBIC?
EUROPEANS ARE DISAPPEARING DEMOGRAPHICALLY.
MAYBE THEY NEED TO CLAMP DOWN ON ALL NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRATION IN ORDER TO RAMP UP THEIR OWN BIRTH RATES?
MAYBE THERE'S A ROLE FOR THE EXTREME RIGHT, AND THE PRESSURE THEY CAN PUT ON THE MIDDLE?
I THINK WE SHOULD PRESSURE BELIENISTS, BUT NOT SHUN THEM.
I THINK THIS IS A TACTICAL DISPUTE.
WE MUSTN'T LET THE ENEMIES - THE LEFT AND THE ISLAMOFASCISTS - DIVIDE US.
Reliapundit,
But by joining forces with racists, won't that divide us even more? The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend. Racists won't work with people of another so called "race" which they deem inferior, and why wouldn't it simply reinforce the notion that people critical of Islam are bigots? It will do more harm then good to ally with people who think that one's moral worth depends on their skin tone or what ethnic group you were born into? I know that some times you have to choose the lesser of "two evils" so to speak, but not here, not in this instance.
Reliapundit,
But by joining forces with racists, won't that divide us even more? The enemy of your enemy isn't necessarily your friend. We have good reason to think that Racists won't work with people of another so called "race" which they deem inferior, and why wouldn't it simply reinforce the notion that people critical of Islam are bigots? It will do more harm then good to ally with people who think that one's moral worth depends on their skin tone or what ethnic group you were born into? I know that some times you have to choose the lesser of "two evils" so to speak, but not here, not in this instance.
Reliapundit,
I think that, considering the history of Europe, you are proposing working with forces (and thereby empowering them with authority by the very fact that you align with them) that are likely to be way out of control.
If I were in charge, and thankfully I am not, I would interview immigrants the way one interviews new-hires for a business. I would find out their qualifications, make an assessment of their personality, of their go-getter qualities, and check into references and background information.
Think carefully here about what you need in order to go through with a fine tooth comb the volume of applications that the U.S. gets each year and you'll see that it's impractical. You'll need to expend a vast amount of resources to set up a mammoth organization with an army of professionals from all fields to do the interviewing, backed up by an army of support staff to do the paperwork administration and an army of sleuths who have local knowledge of every country on Earth to do the background check. No sane person will agree to bear the tax burden for such an economically unproductive idea. So, on pragmatic grounds alone, it makes sense to take White Northern Europeans over non-Whites, since the former are on average culturally most like America's founding stock.
Here here, MR. I'm with you. Thanks for expressing it so well.
Let's just be clear that Atlas doesn't voice her disagreement with the VB over such issues. She just denies the issue exists. The VB, according to her, is a pro-Israel, and therefore, pro-Jewish party filled with non-racists. There is nothing to worry about, according to Atlas, and Baron, and Christine Brim, and Paul Belien, and the others who are supporting the VB.
Part 4.5 of Pickled Radish's "From Meccania to Atlantis" is up at Brussels Journal. The author responds to the racism and anti-Semitism of one of BJ's commenters.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3688
That's quite a stunt he's pulling. Calling for white separatism one day, and decrying racism the next.
How coy and cutesy of him.
Look, the man is clearly very sharp. But, he's using his intellect to play these games for a larger purpose, and he ought to be more responsible about it.
As cute as he's being, he is likely to be ass-raped by the very white supremacists he is now decrying.
Intellectual racism is funny. A person theorizes from his ivory tower, and then is appalled and frightened when the monsters come home to roost.
Egads, Pastorius isn't too sensitive about racism, he's perfectly realistic. Staying vigilant about stories such as the one cited in this post is very important as certain factions morph into an orgy of posting about "whiteness" and such. Bravo Pastorius on this one. This BJ piece was disgusting.
Interesting comment thread.
No one is trained for the mind of war here but Reliapundit.
It's been said that War is Hell and for good reason. War is not a solution based on 'black and white' constructs. There is no place in war for idealists. Ask any soldier.
We have an enemy who wants to destroy our religions, our cultures and our politics. Instead of gathering allies and discussing strategies and tactics, we bicker, accuse and dismiss. Our enemy laughs as we drive wedges through our own lines of defense.
Anonymous,
Neither you or Reliapundit are reading what I'm saying. I'm tiring of the willful ignorance BOTH of you are displaying.
Tell me, what does it smell like in that ass-prison of yours?
Well, I'm late to this thread and have to do a lot of reading to catch up. Yesterday was one of those 'tis-the-Season days and a day off from the web, pretty much.
Anyways, the problem of ethnic nationalism isn't going on just in Europe. See this article in today's WaPo. Excerpt:
MOS COW, Dec. 13 -- The e-mail that arrived Monday night in the inboxes of two organizations tracking hate crimes in Russia carried a disturbing message and an even more disturbing photo -- that of a man's severed head resting on a wooden chopping block.
"This surprise was prepared for Moscow officials by concerned Russian people who can no longer tolerate the invasion of foreigners in their native city," the message declared, accusing darker-skinned migrant workers from the Caucasus and Asia of "an unprecedented wave of criminality that has swamped our capital."...
The email wasn't a hoax. A decapitated body was indeed found.
How much division can any nation have and still stand?
We're seeing serious division -- and I'm not speaking of the rift in the counter-jihad.
It's gonna get ugly and right quick.
Our war w/islam must be viewed more along the lines of survival. islam is as alien a philosophy as if they had landed here from another world with intentions to annihilate all humans.
I don't care who pulls my drowning butt out of the water; we'll fight over ideology when we reach land.
SamenoKami,
Right now when it comes to racists verses Islam-o-Facists we really don't have to choose the lesser of two evils, so why even consider it?
Ass-prison!!! Jaco, that was an instant classic! Right on!
Sameno--you'd care if you weren't white and they were threatening to drop you back in that water.
First, I would like to that Pastorius for a semi-rational post that refrains for the most part from ranting. I do find it disturbing, however, that he finds the survival of whites as an identifiable group to be a verboten subject. The commentators are worse, of course. We, for example, get this pearl of wisdom.
'What your ancestors did means shit'
No, what my ancestors did means a lot -- me, you (presumably you are in the west) all of us live off the social capital built up from past generation. In Europe, this means overwhelmingly people who are, well, European, that is, who have had pretty much the same genetic make up -- as measured against other population groups -- for literally 40,000 years. If Europe opened its doors (even wider) there is no doubt that the genetic community who built up that legacy would be in essence overwhelmed. They would cease to exist as an identifiable population.
In America the situation -- for all the 'nation of immigrants' blather -- is the same. Perform this thought experiment, or actually take a look at the empirical evidence. Haiti became independent just about the same time the United States did. Obviously things turned out a little different , no? Well, there are a lot of differences, sure, but one is so obvious... think hard now.
Interesting too that neither Pastorius or commentators answer data with data. The high level of crime amongst sub-sarahan African (or African origin) populations in the US, UK and Canada? Is that really down to 'racism'? Would not our societies change if, say, the UK became 75% subsaharan black? To ask the question is to answer it. Having answered it, we have to ask, do we want to continue as an identifiable people or do we want to commit genetic suicide?
stari_momak,
You sound like a very polite, very sophisticated racist. Do you want to be the next David Duke?
No seriously, prove to us that race is something other than a meaningless social construction. Than show us innate, morally relevant differences between the races. Things like, the greater crime rate among African Americans, has nothing to do with genetic inferiority, it has to do with culture, period.
This is a battle of ideology, not race. Islam is not a race. Jihadists are white, black, Asian, Latino, you name it, and so are anti-Jihadists. Treating this as something to do with race only hurts the fight against Islam-o-Fascism.
BLATHER?
If you think that is blather not only do you not comprehend america you never will.
American achievement reached its ZENITH only after the 1890-1924 immigration wave when we took in more than a third of our total population the vast majority of whom were NOT western european (they came 100 years before). The children of those immigrants are what we call the Greatest Generation (so far).
"Having answered it, we have to ask, do we want to continue as an identifiable people or do we want to commit genetic suicide?"
I do not to be part of what you refer to as an identifiable people. Those who THINK THAT WAY will do anything to preserve the identity of EIN VOLK.
All of human history indicates this objective, inarguable reality.
My hill is an identifiable set of ideas. NOT some 'pure' KULTUR which sooner or later comes down to blood and soil.
Your argument mimics EXACTLY Mr Buchanan, stari-momak
Epaminondas,
Right on!
Thanks for the compliment Epaminondas, but your argument is not with PJB or even Hitler, it is with the founders of this nation. In every policy, from the militia laws to immigration, they saw themselves as a distinct, identifiable people. Here, for example, is John Jay in Federalist no. two.
With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people -- a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence. [emphasis added]
Jay, of course, was a Northerner -- you don't even want to go into what Jefferson thought of Blacks or Indians
Damien,
Race is a biological fact, though nowadays geneticists talk about 'population groups'.
Of course it is a social construct also -- everything is. What is a orange (the fruit) and is it different than a grapefruit, or is a grapefruit just a bigger, more bitter, and more yellowish orange? How about a tangerine? You see where I am going
As to the nature vs. culture debate, I don't doubt that culture plays apart in differences in behavior, but genetics does also, and often times genetic predisposition influences culture. These are not, of course, hard and fast rules, individuals vary. But in the current situation we are not speaking of individuals, but of fundamentally altering the demographics of European and North American and Australian society.
But let us suppose you are right -- obviously there are physical differences between races. Why is it wrong simply to want people who look like me to continue to exist. This hit me when I was walking in Trieste -- I saw a young Northern Italian woman who looked as if she could have stepped out of a Fra Angelico painting. Well, the way Italy is going, both from self-inflicted wounds (low fertility) and from 'liberalism' -- i.e. mass immigration -- there will be few to none of her kind in the future. This is a disaster simply for purely aesthetic reasons.
All that I and people like me want is our survival as a people. I cannot see how that is blameworthy.
stari_momak,
I can site science articles that say that race has no basis in biology. I don't care about skin tone demographics, or ethnic demographics, I care about cultural demographics. Culture is the sum of all learned behavior, it is not genetic. Yes genetics influence human behavior, but the genetic differences between white people and black people are minuscule and none of them make the blacks or whites morally superior, even in general. What's more there is often greater genetic diversity within one "race" than between two different people of different "races." But, yes you are right about one thing, the cultural demographic situation in Europe right now is not good.
"Thanks for the compliment Epaminondas, but your argument is not with PJB or even Hitler, it is with the founders of this nation. In every policy, from the militia laws to immigration, they saw themselves as a distinct, identifiable people. Here, for example, is John Jay in Federalist no. two."
"Jay, of course, was a Northerner -- you don't even want to go into what Jefferson thought of Blacks or Indians"
What's that supposed to mean? Our culture was much more racist back than, and that was a bad thing. What does it matter what Jefferson thought, just because he was Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson, was right about many things, but like all you human beings he was a product of his time and place. He was shaped by a culture that although superior in some ways to modern American culture was inferior in other ways. So just because our founding fathers thought one way doesn't make them correct. Much of their thinking has been proven wrong such as the practice of using leaches to cure people of disease by removing the bad blood.
Stari Momak,
I agree that would be a disaster for purely aesthetic reasons.
In fact, this is a subject for a different blog, but as long as we're on the subject, I will say that one of my predictions for the future is that people will do cosmetic surgery, and eventually biotech cosmetic design to create themselves to emulate such women and men as you would see in old Renaissance paintings. Additionally, people will want to look like Asian Princesses, Spartan warriors, African tribesmen, Irish maidens, etc., and we will have the technology to create it.
I know that is small comfort, because we can never again create the world as it was. It will, instead, be a mall where you can buy genetic traits. But, the personality, the atmosphere of old cultures, etc. will all be lost.
That is sad. However, I'm sure that many cultures thoughout history have mourned the fact that they have been disappearing, or disappeared.
There is always something new. Sometimes it is better, and sometimes it is worse.
I find this to be a beautiful, fascinating, and exciting time to live. Apparently, you don't.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope that doesn't sound obnoxious of me. I don't mean it in a disparaging way.
I remember reading an American book called Blue Highways. It was about a man who set out on a trip by car across America. He took only the highways which appeared "blue" on the map. In other words, the back roads of America. It was a wonderful book, filled with nostalgia for world's disappearing. It filled me with a sense of longing and sadness. When I was a kid, my family traveled back and forth across the United States (yes, all the way across) on Route 66 five times. I remember it very clearly. America was an amazing and wonderful place then.
However, I think America is an amazing and wonderful place today as well. And, I think that in twenty years, some other man is going to write a similar book about a trip he took across the United States to bid farewell to the early 2K time gone by.
A few years ago, I went to visit a client. It was a video game company called Midway. The corporate office was in a little nondescript industrial building.I found it very hard to believe that a big company like Midway games was located in such a nondescript industrial complex.
So, I asked why.
I was told that that very office had been the original office where they first created and manugactuted Pong, Night Drive and Asteroids.
That was my youth.
What a weird experience. That building was filled with memories. And yet, it was just a little hole-in-the-wall industrial cookie cutter worker trap.
These memories are products of our imagination, as much as they are the echoes of real experiences.
The visceral textures of life will always scratch themselves into our consciousness and we will always imbue these sensual phenomena with feeling, dimension, and love, and those feelings will always echo, and they will always end up slowly disappearing into nostalgia.
To return to our subject, one of the most tragic things I noticed about Paris when I visited there back in 2002, was that it was a city still living in the gay Paree 60's, when Mitterand seemed to have filled the French with hope that they could still be something. I literally heard the songs "Those Were the Days My Friends" and Maurice Chevalier singing in the subways and restaurants. It was pathetic.
That's what happens when a whole society gets caught up in nostalgia. They begin to die.
I remember reading an interview with Miles Davis, in which he was asked why he didn't play My Funny Valentine anymore. His answer was, because if I continue to play My Funny Valentine every night, it will kill me.
I have endeavored to keep that attitude as a lesson in my life. I want to refuse the gift of nostalgia. Nostalgia is a temptress, much like the Siren's and their song. It lures you into the water to drown, all the while believing you will be alright.
It has been a pleasant conversation, unlike at some other sites. I would like to continue but I need to earn some cash.
I'd just add two things. I bring up the Founders because there is a misconception that they founded this nation as some 'ideal' -- this is simply wrong as a matter of history, a 'social construction' of a later era.
Second, I'd like to ask this : I believe Belgium has something like 11 million people. Right now I can walk into a museum and look at a Bosch or a Bruegels and see a continuity between the current population and the people they were painting-- for the most part anyway. How many immigrants, be they Christians from the Congo or Islamic Moroccans, to transform the country beyond all recognition, to render the words of Bosch and the Flemish masters as the relics of a basically extinct people?
I missed Pastorius's coment.
I can certainly see why you want to maintain the focus on the Islamic threat on this blog and I respect that. I would like to response to this
That is sad. However, I'm sure that many cultures thoughout history have mourned the fact that they have been disappearing, or disappeared.
The difference is that none, to my knowledge, have gone down not only without a fight, but positively celebrating their demise. The Indians fought the white man for 300 years, one nation after another. The Welsh, at least according to some interpretations of the Arthur myths, fought the Angles and Saxons. The Han Chinese of Singapore keep the demography titled in their favor, and the Tibetans resist, as best they can, being absorbed demographically by other Han Chinese.
Okay, I am really going silent now, but look forward to any responses.
Stari, being compared to the outright racist, anti semite Buchanan is not something I would hold before me as a badge of honor.
What the founding brothers did was to introduce the nation as an idea, and as a permanent revolutionary state of what really is your enemy
CHANGE.
This nation, unlike any other has by enhancing, institutionalizing, and promoting revolutionary change remained in the lead of nearly every endeavor we have chosen or been forced upon us.
Grandfalloons such as you have proposed as if they really represent ANYTHING are threatened for PRECISELY the reason they are important to you.
As Spengler at Asia Times has intoned many times, that which europe has looked down on us for, our lack of culture, our goop melange of continents, races, religions and histories is why we are what we are:
Cultural polytheists ready to embrace the next culture and way of being of those who come here to be assimilated into our sunday barbecue.
The apotheosis of nearly everyplace else on the planet
Stari--there are plenty of non-whites out here who are still quite proud of our cultural heritage as Americans. So what if my ancestors didn't come from Western Europe? I'm as Western as they come though the BJ would discount that were I in Europe and decry it as a situation of demographic shift in America.
What this series of articles is trying so hard to get at, and not even with deft subtlety that could be used, is frankly disgusting to me (and luckily many others here). There is NO reason to ally oneself with people who think like this just to stop terrorists, it is simply racism, that's all it is. Couch it in "counter-jihadi" terms just shows that the BJ knows its audience well and little more. As has been said, the mask has slipped.
Epaminondas, I sure have missed you! I love it when you go ballistic in these comments sections.
Hey lex... long time
Actually I thought that was calm.
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