Saturday, July 23, 2011

More Oklahoma City than World Trade Center (?)

PASTORIUS CUTTING IN - I added a "?" to Midnight Rider's title. And, I will add this bit, from Jihad Watch to the top of this post, because I think there may be something fishy about this claim by the government that this is not related to Islamic terrorism:
At last, some apparently definitive information. After a jihad group curiously claimed responsibility and retracted, and after some terror experts said it was a jihad attack and some said it wasn't, and after the media pointed to jihadists as essentially the only ones with a motive, and Islamic supremacists applauded the attack, it appears that it was not a jihad attack after all. "Norway Camp Shooting: 'As Many As 30 Dead,'" from Sky News, July 22:
As many as 30 people are feared dead in a shooting at a Norwegian youth camp after a bomb in the capital, Oslo, killed at least seven. Shots were fired by a man dressed as a police officer at a youth meeting of the ruling Labour Party in Utoya - an island around 20 miles from the capital.
He has been named in Norway as Anders Behring Breivik - an anonymous official said he was believed to have been working alone.
Police said they do not think the attacks were linked to Islamic terrorism....


RESUME MIDNIGHT RIDER'S POST -
The Latest: Lone individual perpetrated both attacks by setting off the bombs then driving to the camp. Authorities claim not Islam related.

At least that's the story for now.

Fox:

At Least 16 Dead in Attacks on Norway Capital, Youth Camp

A homegrown terrorist set off an explosion that ripped open buildings in the heart of Norway's government Friday, then went to a summer camp dressed as a police officer and gunned down youths as they ran and even swam for their lives, police said Friday.
The attacks killed at least 16 people in this peaceful nation's worst violence since World War II.
A police official said the 32-year-old ethnic Norwegian suspect arrested at the camp on Utoya island appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organizations at all." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police.
"It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This seems like a madman's work."

The official said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City than it is Norway's World Trade Center." Domestic terrorists carried out the 1995 attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City, while foreign terrorists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

The official added, however, "it's still just hours since the incident happened. And the investigation is going on with all available resources."

The motive was unknown, but both attacks were in areas connected to the ruling Labor Party government. The youth camp, about 20 miles (35 kilometers) northwest of Oslo, is organized by the party's youth wing, and the prime minister had been scheduled to speak there Saturday.

A 15-year-old camper named Elise said she heard gunshots, but then saw a police officer and thought she was safe. Then he started shooting people right before her eyes.

"I saw many dead people," said Elise, whose father, Vidar Myhre, didn't want her to disclose her last name. "He first shot people on the island. Afterward he started shooting people in the water."

Elise said she hid behind the same rock that the killer was standing on. "I could hear his breathing from the top of the rock," she said.

She said it was impossible to say how many minutes passed while she was waiting for him to stop.

At a hotel in the village of Sundvollen, where survivors of the shooting were taken, 21-year-old Dana Berzingi wore pants stained with blood. He said the fake police officer ordered people to come closer, then pulled weapons and ammunition from a bag and started shooting.

Several victims "had pretended as if they were dead to survive," Berzingi said. But after shooting the victims with one gun, the gunman shot them again in the head with a shotgun, he said.

"I lost several friends," said Berzingi, who used the cell phone of one of those friends to call police.

The blast in Oslo, Norway's capital and the city where the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded, left a square covered in twisted metal, shattered glass and documents expelled from surrounding buildings. Most of the windows in the 20-floor high-rise where Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and his administration work were shattered. Other buildings damaged house government offices and the headquarters of some of Norway's leading newspapers.

The dust-fogged scene after the blast reminded one visitor from New York of Sept. 11.

Ian Dutton, who was in a nearby hotel, said people "just covered in rubble" were walking through "a fog of debris."

"It wasn't any sort of a panic," he said, "It was really just people in disbelief and shock, especially in a such as safe and open country as Norway. You don't even think something like that is possible."

Police said the Oslo explosion was caused by "one or more" bombs.

The police official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the Oslo bombing occurred at 3:26 p.m. local time (1:26 p.m. GMT), and the camp shootings began one to two hours later. The official said the gunman used both automatic weapons and handguns, and that there was at least one unexploded device at the youth camp that a police bomb disposal team and military experts were working on disarming.

The suspect had only a minor criminal record, the official said.

Police said seven people died in the Oslo blast, and another 9 or 10 people were killed at the camp. Rescuers were to search to blast wreckage through the night for more victims, and Stoltenberg said police fear there could be more victims at the camp as well.

Acting national Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim said a man was arrested in the shooting, and the suspect had been observed in Oslo before the explosion there.

Sponheim said the camp shooter "wore a sweater with a police sign on it. I can confirm that he wasn't a police employee and never has been."

Aerial images broadcast by Norway's TV2 showed members of a SWAT team dressed in black arriving at the island in boats and running up the dock. Behind them, people who stripped down to their underwear swam away from the island toward shore, some using flotation devices.

Sponheim said police were still trying to get an overview of the camp shooting and could not say whether there was more than one shooter. He would not give any details about the identity or nationality of the suspect, who was being interrogated by police.

Oslo University Hospital said 12 people were admitted for treatment following the Utoya shooting, and 11 people were taken there from the explosion in Oslo. The hospital asked people to donate blood.

Stoltenberg, who was home when the blast occurred and was not harmed, visited injured people at the hospital late Friday. Earlier he decried what he called "a cowardly attack on young innocent civilians."

"I have message to those who attacked us," he said. "It's a message from all of Norway: You will not destroy our democracy and our commitment to a better world."

Stoltenberg said "we don't want to speculate" on whether a terror group is responsible, and said some groups may take responsibility "to appear to be more important than they are."

The attacks formed the deadliest day of terror in Western Europe since the 2005 London bombings, which killed 52 people.

Public broadcaster NRK showed video of a blackened car lying on its side amid the debris. An AP reporter who was in the office of Norwegian news agency NTB said the building shook from the blast and all employees were evacuated. Down in the street, he saw one person with a bleeding leg being led away from the area.

An AP reporter headed to Utoya was turned away by police before reaching the lake that surrounds the island, as eight ambulances with sirens blaring entered the area. Police blocked off roads leading to the lake.

Emilie Bersaas, identified by Sky News television as one of the youths on the island, said she ran inside a school building and hid under a bed when the shooting started.

"At one point the shooting was very, very close (to) the building, I think actually it actually hit the building one time, and the people in the next room screamed very loud," she said.

"I laid under the bed for two hours and then the police smashed a window and came in," Bersaas said. "It seems kind of unreal, especially in Norway. This is not something that could happen here."

One of the youths at the camp, Niclas Tokerud, stayed in touch with his sister through the attack through text messages.

"He sent me a text saying 'there's been gunshots. I am scared (expletive). But I am hiding and safe. I love you,"' said Nadia Tokerud, a 25-year-old graphic designer in Hokksund, Norway.

As he boarded a boat from the island after the danger had passed he sent one more text: "I'm safe."

The United States, European Union, NATO and the U.K., all quickly condemned the bombing, which Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague called "horrific" and NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen deemed a "heinous act."

"It's a reminder that the entire international community has a stake in preventing this kind of terror from occurring," President Barack Obama said.

Obama extended his condolences to Norway's people and offered U.S. assistance with the investigation. He said he remembered how warmly Norwegians treated him in Oslo when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009.

Nobel Peace Prize Chairman Thorbjorn Jagland said it appeared the camp attack "was intended to hurt young citizens who actively engage in our democratic and political society. But we must not be intimidated. We need to work for freedom and democracy every day."

At least two extremist groups had tried to take credit for the attacks. Many intelligence analysts said they had never heard of Helpers of Global Jihad, which took initial credit. Ansar al-Islam also took credit on some jihadist web sites.

Norway has been grappling with a homegrown terror plot linked to Al Qaeda. Two suspects are in jail awaiting charges.

Last week, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terror charges against an Iraqi-born cleric for threatening Norwegian politicians with death if he is deported from the Scandinavian country. The indictment centered on statements that Mullah Krekar -- the founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam -- made to various news media, including American network NBC.

Terrorism has also been a concern in neighboring Denmark since an uproar over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad six years ago.

14 comments:

Chuck said...

Sounds an awful lot like the "no connection to terrorism" statement released immediately after the Fort Hood shooting.

Pastorius said...

I think I agree with Chuck, MR.

Are you aware that a group called "Helpers of Global Jihad" initially claimed responsibility and then back tracked that claim:

"Helpers of Global Jihad" claims, then disclaims, responsibility for Oslo blast, youth camp shooting

UPDATE 11:38 PDT: Now Will McCants has this: "'Helpers of Global Jihad' now says its claim is not the official claim and it had nothing to do w/ operation. Says wait for official claim."

------------------

It's Motoon Rage. From the Telegraph news feed:

18.03 Will McCants now says that Ansar al-Jihad al-Alami (Helpers of Global Jihad) seem to make a claim of responsibility. They claim it is in response to the occupation of Afghanistan and insults to the Prophet Mohammed. It has come via Shmukh, an elite jihadi forum.

McCants translates part of the message:

"We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations & we have demanded that the countries of Europe withdraw from the land of Afghanistan and end their war on Islam and Muslims. What you see is only the beginning and there is more to come."

And here is the full message, in my hasty translation:

Praise be to Allah from his slaves, united and humiliating the people of shirk [worship of others besides Allah] and companions of kufr [unbelief]. Prayers and peace be upon our Prophet Muhammad, the Seal of the Prophets, his family and companions and descendents.

Pastorius said...

MORE

The Almighty said: "Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment. [Qur'an 4:84]

Here another message from the militants has reached the countries of Europe and further proof for the countries of Europe that the mujahideen will not stand idly before their war against Islam and Muslims.

Today Norway has been targeted in order to be a lesson, and a lesson to the rest of Europe. We have warned since the Stockholm raid of more operations and we have demanded that European countries of Europe withdraw their armies from the land of Afghanistan and end their war on Islam and Muslims. We repeat our warning again to the countries of Europe and tell them that the demands of the mujahideen must be carried out. What you see is only the beginning. There will be more.

There were many reasons for the targeting of Norway. The most important is their participation in the occupation of Afghanistan and the abuse of our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Praise Allah who has enabled his slaves to be united...and pray to Allah to save our brothers and our fighters everywhere.

Glory and praise to Allah. I bear witness that there is no god but you and I repent to you.

Abu Suleiman Al-Nasser
Helpers of Global Jihad

RT said...

Why have we conditioned ourselves to take a cautious approach to blaming large explosions in Western capitals on Muslims ….. until we find out more?

You know what I’m sayin’ …….. we have every legitimate reason to jump to that conclusion.

This might well turn out to have nothing to do with Islam. But what subliminal forces are at work within our minds that make us hesitant to point the finger at the most prolific practitioners of terror ….. until we have proof?

….. if its not wanting to be embarrassed by being proven wrong that’s one thing.

….. but if its a deep seeded conditioned response of giving “everyone” the benefit of the doubt ….. the innocent until proven guilty bullshit …….. then thats a dangerous flaw in our thinking just waiting to be further exploited by our Islamic enemies.

I think part of the hesitancy is due to a growing cottage industry of conservative white man haters that are out there just waiting to pounce on any documented examples of Islamic finger pointing should this turn out to be the work of a deranged politically motivated Viking. But we shouldn’t let those anti-Redneck activists’ opinions have any bearing on our actions.

Being too scared to point the finger at the enemy ….. because you MIGHT be wrong …….. is indicative of being too scared to thoroughly kick his ass when you’re right...... because you might make him madder. By hesitating we’re broadcasting the insinuation that we have as much respect for Islamic shitheads as we do anyone else. And delaying the accusation only allows our passions for revenge to start to subside. In the nuclear age such hesitancy could prove fatal. I'd rather apologize after erroneously vaporizing Islamic Capitals and Holy Sites, than have to rope off dozens of American cities for a century. ;-)

…… what I’m basically saying is ….. I’m not gonna feel bad about assuming this was an Islamic thing if it turns out not to be. They’ve earned the disrespect.

midnight rider said...

Big backstep there, gents. I am only putting up what is being reported on this right now (trying to keep it current). I don't necessarily agree with/believe it. And as you know, P, I believe there was an Islamist component to Ok City. It's also why I stated "That's the story for now".

So, I agree with you guys. But thanks for the question mark anyway although I should have put the title in quotes (because that's what it was from the story).

Pastorius said...

Gotcha. Thanks. I wasn't upset about it anyway. Sorry if it seemed that I was.

Pastorius said...

I added a question mark to my post "The things we put up with ..."

it's under the Oslo photograph.

midnight rider said...

No no, no problem at all. I didn't think you were but thought maybe I should clarify my own position since I didn't do so good with the light snark in the post :)

Damien said...

Pastorius and Midnight Rider,

Weather the police at this point think that terrorist attack on Norway's capital has anything to do with Islam, or not, they could simply be wrong. We don't know at this point. From what I remember hearing about the Oklahoma City bombing, at the time at least some people suspected that it was an attack carried out by Islamic terrorists, and it turned out, that they were wrong. So they just might not know, if it is or isn't Islamic terrorism in this cases, and at the moment, don't suspect that it is.

midnight rider said...

Damien -- you may well be correct it had nothing to do with Islam.

Although in OKC's case, I believe, as do many others, there was a Third Terrorist that has either been covered up or not fully investigated for reasons unclear.

That may, MAY, also be the case here.

ronmorgen said...

You ask, "what subliminal forces are at work within our minds that make us hesitant to point the finger at the most prolific practitioners of terror".

The "Islam is a religion of peace" lie that that the left tells.

RT said...

The "Islam is a religion of peace" lie that that the left tells.

They're mot the only ones who tell it.

Most Politicians on the Right do as well.

So do most religious leaders of other faiths, and educators.

I think they all know its a lie, but they are too afraid of being targeted for telling the truth.

Alan W. Wright said...

Sounds like disappointment on the part of the group that initially claimed responsibility because someone else ruined their fun.

Either that or they are narcissistic!

Anonymous said...

Everybody was shocked with this incident, how could a peaceful known country like Norway experienced this kind of situation. Oklahoma City builder